Return TD's should count for both player and defense

Postby sportsbettingman » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:51 pm

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Here it is in case you haven't seen it on the main MB front page...

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Return TD's should count for both player and defense

Postby Sandman62 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:18 am

Originally posted by Daren E:
I am in complete agreement with the individual player getting credit for his return TDs. In most other league I am in this is the rule.

There is double scoring for passing TDs, so why not returns? And if one team has both the QB and WR they get 12 pts, plus the yards and a catch.

One of the travesties of the season was earlier this year when Eddie Royal returned 2 kicks for TDs in the same game. He was so tired running the length of the field twice he didn't play much offense and got no catches (McDaniels said he wanted to keep him fresh...). So his NFFC owners got zero points for their trouble of starting him. And I'm not just complaining for myself because I didn't have him on any of my NFFC teams. But I did have him in one of my local leagues and got 12 points that night in that league.
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Then where were these suggestions BEFORE the season started? People knew the rules, drafted accordingly, and then wanted retroactive changes in their favor. :rolleyes:

It's DIFFERENT when 2 players get credit for a TD pass because it's 2 different HUMAN BEINGS. In these special teams cases, it's the SAME PERSON. No action by any single person should should cause more than one fantasy lineup spot to be awarded points.

Now, as has been mentioned before on these boards, it may be worth considering JUST awarding such points to the individual player and not to the DST - in effect, taking the "ST" out of "DST" and leaving D as just the team's defense. While we're at it, maybe also see if there's a way to NOT count against a defense's "points against" the points that the team's OFFENSE allows (by way of turnovers for TDs).

[ December 12, 2009, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
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Return TD's should count for both player and defense

Postby OrCal Crapshooters » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:29 pm

I hope Greg will start a thread on this after the season ends or well in advance of next years event.I think punt returns and kick returns should go to the individual players only. I think we should eliminate the points against crap by dropping that from defensive scoring options. Just pay the defense on sacks, fumble recoverys, interceptions, safetys, and touchdowns of course, if the DEFENSE scores one.When the offense is on the field all TD's go to the offensive player.When the punt return team or kick return team is on the field it becomes an individual score again.If the punter or place kicker throw a pass for a Td, they get points. I think too much has been awarded to DST when we are really more interested in our individual players. A defense usually isn't drafted until the 8th rd or later so why let them be such a factor in the scoring ?
On the payout front for the league titles, I, like Greg, don't like a mini playoff. I don't feel strongly one way or the other on record vs points for first. I suppose record should get first with points as the tiebreaker, and points receiving all other dollar payouts. I would like a 3rd place payout as well.It would be nice to do a full scale vote on these items if a questionnaire could be sent to teams over the winter. That's my 2 cents !

Mark

[ December 12, 2009, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: OrCal Crapshooters ]
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Return TD's should count for both player and defense

Postby Greg Ambrosius » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:44 am

Originally posted by OrCal Crapshooters:
I hope Greg will start a thread on this after the season ends or well in advance of next years event.I think punt returns and kick returns should go to the individual players only. I think we should eliminate the points against crap by dropping that from defensive scoring options. Just pay the defense on sacks, fumble recoverys, interceptions, safetys, and touchdowns of course, if the DEFENSE scores one.When the offense is on the field all TD's go to the offensive player.When the punt return team or kick return team is on the field it becomes an individual score again.If the punter or place kicker throw a pass for a Td, they get points. I think too much has been awarded to DST when we are really more interested in our individual players. A defense usually isn't drafted until the 8th rd or later so why let them be such a factor in the scoring ?
On the payout front for the league titles, I, like Greg, don't like a mini playoff. I don't feel strongly one way or the other on record vs points for first. I suppose record should get first with points as the tiebreaker, and points receiving all other dollar payouts. I would like a 3rd place payout as well.It would be nice to do a full scale vote on these items if a questionnaire could be sent to teams over the winter. That's my 2 cents !

Mark
Mark, if you took away special teams touchdowns from the defense, then I think we'd all admit that defenses wouldn't be drafted until the very late rounds. You can only accumulate so many points from sacks and turnovers.

I think the way to go on special teams touchdowns is to keep it the way we have it or double dip with the individual players. And then you have to double score a play like what happened on Sunday with Robert Meacham. I've already said that our rules are set up NOT to double dip on these plays and that would be my feeling going forward. But we'll survey the masses and see if that's what they want.

Sound good?
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Return TD's should count for both player and defense

Postby Ted's Cracked Head » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:17 am

I think that a TD scored by an individual player on a team defense requires a great deal of skill.

It is usually the individuals unique ability to read the movement in front of them, while instinctively reacting in a manner that allows them to find that lane to glory. Very few have this trait that I do not think you can teach.

Yes. it takes 10 other disciplined athletes to do their job and create those lanes but in my opinion, it takes a special athlete to attack that position in the manner necessary to go the distance.

I think these players should be rewarded for their efforts.

I think that double-dipping in this instance is more than appropriate. I would welcome this change with open arms.
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Return TD's should count for both player and defense

Postby Sabretooth » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:28 am

I would be good with an individual player as well as a defense getting credit for a punt return for instance. We can't reward any points for yardage as far as kick returns are concerned and yes they shouldget docked a pt for a fumble on a kick return. And Greg I agree that taking the score away from the D would push the defense to the very end of the draft. What about having 4 pts for instance for the D instead of 6 on a return?
I imagine we will be talking about this a lot this offseason.
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Return TD's should count for both player and defense

Postby mikeybok » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:51 am

This is a really bad idea. Return TD's are too hard to account for (in FF) and become more about luck than anything else. This is the reason FF leagues continue to water down TD's by adding in points for things like yardage and receptions. This proposal is one step back IMO.

I have yet to see a good argument for adding points for returns (because I want them is NOT a reason).

The fluke return Luck is already in the Def/FA ... now this idea wants to put it in two places? It would be better to take the luck out of the Defense TD's and give extra points for yardage "held to" or something. Then you wouldn't have to root against your player.

Ugly

[ December 14, 2009, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: Ugly Yellow Tomatoes ]
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Return TD's should count for both player and defense

Postby eliasond » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:49 am

I am totally in favor of double-dipping for 6 points twice to the player and team for punt returns, kickoff returns, defensive returns, short field goal returns, TDs after double-change-of-possesion, or any other way a player could possibly score a TD. Randy Moss plays the last play of a game on defense, intercepts and returns for a TD, both he and his team get 6 points each.

In response to a previous post, I was never suggesting we change the rule retroactively, this would certainly not take effect until next year.

And I'm pretty sure I have made this same suggestion in years past, meaning I just didn't form this opinion now. And as I also posted previously my own local leagues have done it this way for years.

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Return TD's should count for both player and defense

Postby Coltsfan » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:26 am

I gotta agree with Mike here - I can't say that I would be in favor of this. It's honestly not a huge issue either way for me but my preference would be to leave it like it is.


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